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Post by MTRuth on Mar 13, 2012 22:45:49 GMT
I have been hearing about the copywrite issues and that has been another reason not to get involved with yet another new social media. I sound like a grumpy old lady, I know.
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Post by Shepherdess on Mar 14, 2012 1:39:51 GMT
It is publishing peoples work without asking. It's like music file sharing but with pictures. I don't know how it works if you are not making money of it. If it was the real world I could take a picture and then show it to as many people as I wanted to but I can't publish it. It can be quite complicated. I noticed some of the pictures on flicker are copyrighted. If you right click to copy you get a notice instead . I discovered if you look at a different size of the picture you can then copy it. If I can figure that out in less than a min then people that are out to do harm or make money off others will have figured it out to. I do copy pictures for my inspiration file. I don't copy them and I don't publish them. I think if you want to keep something safe or secret you should keep it out of the public eye. I don't put up pictures of thing I don't want people to see or possibly copy. Sorry for going on so....
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Post by zed on Mar 14, 2012 9:36:31 GMT
I agree with you, Ann, after being blatantly copied with not the slightest acknowledgment, I don't put up pics I don't want people to see or copy before I've had chance to explore the ide more myself. On flickr now, there's something you can click to make it unpinnable. And there's supposed to be an easy way to ask for your pic to be removed on Pinterest.
I've been 'pinned' a few times, it doesn't bother me really, since credit is always given and a link back to the source, and no one is claiming it's theirs, just saying they like it.
There's some blogger who made a vessel and said they didn't have time to explain the process but directed people to click 'here' and 'here' for how to's and one is to my flickr vessel tutorial, she doesn't indicate it isn't hers. That is completely illegal, and I'd prefer if she gave me credit, but I did the tutorial to help, so if it helps, that's ok.
Oh, there's a website called Tineye, it's a reverse image search, if you're worried your photos have been used, you can upload a pic and search.
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Post by pamd on Mar 14, 2012 13:29:25 GMT
I guess I am failing to see the problem here. If you put a pic up on your blog, say, sharing with the whole blogosphere, why would it be a problem to have the pic up on pinterest with a link to your site to bring more people to your blog, which is, I would think, the purpose of having a blog, to share with the interested public. I haven't found a pic on Pinterest yet that doesn't link to the person originating the picture. There are pics with links to flickr, but again, aren't those pics posted for the purpose of showing your work? I've seen pics with links to etsy stores. Hmmm, now what would the problem be with saying, oh, look at this beautiful item and it's available at this link.
Now, if someone was posting the pic and saying, tell me how to make a copy of this, I would see a problem with that.
I have a feeling this is going to be a hard case to win, as most rulings from courts so far in the US have been that forum owners have little to no responsibility for what is posted, and I think Pinterest falls pretty closely within that category.
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Post by MTRuth on Mar 14, 2012 17:13:27 GMT
I haven't been on Pinterest but have been reading various other blogs about photos pinned with no link or without the artist's name. I don't mind sharing my photos. As you say Pam, that is why I have a blog. But if it gets re-pinned and re-pinned, I think eventually, it will be out there without the proper credit with it. Then it isn't really fair to the person who created it.
I'm sure most people are trying to do it the correct way. But I have people come in my store all the time that say, Oh look at this, I can make this. That's such a good idea and I know how to make it. Now I can make ones like this. And since so many people can now sell whatever they make online easily, more and more people are stealing others ideas and selling them as their own.
Anywho... I don't mean to go on and on but people who are trying to make a living at being an artist have a hard time already. I agree with Ann. If you don't want something copied, don't put it on the internet.
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Post by Shepherdess on Mar 15, 2012 3:09:38 GMT
I agree if you have a blog or web site you are trying to get yourself out there. The link back on pinterest is great but lots of stuff in lots of places don't give link backs. The reason I mentioned flickers copyright was so that if you think its safe its not. As far as I know no one has made copies of my stuff, but unless they sold it where I see it I would never know. I don't search eBay or etsy for felt things very much.
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Post by zed on Mar 15, 2012 8:53:31 GMT
There is a way to make any photos on flickr undownloadable, I haven't looked into it. But if anyone really wants a picture they can just do a screen shot. I found one of my soybean staple fibre photos on some scientific site about fibres, once. It looked like they hadn't posted for a while though.
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Post by pamd on Mar 15, 2012 13:33:23 GMT
Ruth, as far as I have been able to determine on Pinterest, the small pictures that you see on your screen when you first log on, do not have artist information unless the person pinning it adds the info. However, if you click on the picture to enlarge or repin it to your collections, then the website it came from is displayed. So, the initial run-through of all the little photos by many people posted on the page when you first go on the site, does not necessarily display the info of where it came from or who it belongs to, but all that info is just a click away. I have discovered so many great artists by going from the link of a picture to their blog.
However, as has already been stated, there are people who will copy anything they see, sometimes inadvertantly and sometimes purposely. And unfortunately there is not much that can be done about it if one chooses to display their art online.
Copying has long been an approved way to learn, since forever, so many people don't see anything wrong with "stealing" and idea. Most art/craft classes are based on copying what your instructor is showing you, if not the pattern, colors, then the style and methods used. I myself recall walking through art fairs and thinking to myself, oh, I can make that. I never thought of it as stealing someone's idea, just as I don't think most people online set out to steal an artist's idea, but it does happen. There are the ones - and many of them - that will see, mass produce and sell anything they find without a backward thought about who they might be hurting.
Many people in the glass bead world (I refuse to call them artists) see absolutely nothing wrong with copying someone else's work and selling the beads for their own profit. In fact, I would say that is what is mostly going on in that community now. Most of the real artists have either left the field or no longer post pictures of their work online - or they write and sell tutorials of how to copy their work. It's a sad commentary on the world of art/craft in today's society.
(The glass bead world was my world for almost 30 years, until I too left in disgust several years ago. I started in that world when there was no written information to be found and nothing online and no organizations to join. Now there is too much information, too many people only interested in making a fast buck and too few people who care about the real art of working with glass.)
Sorry for the long post, but every once in a while it seems something triggers this need in me to scream, and this was the equivolent of a scream. Now I need to go back and severely edit this post.
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Post by MTRuth on Mar 15, 2012 16:34:40 GMT
Thanks for your input Pam. I don't think there is an answer to this problem. But a good rant now and then makes you feel better
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Post by Shepherdess on Mar 15, 2012 21:26:33 GMT
No problem Pam. we all need to blow off a little steam sometimes. Jewelry seems to be a real in thing these days everyone is doing it. I went to see a show put on by a local art group. 75% are jewelry makers. Bead Stringers really. The first booth was very nice then the next one has the same pieces and beads. and the next and the next. It looked like they all took the same class and went to the same store and bought the same beads. It was amazing. sounds like it was the same with glass beads. there where 2 or 3 out of the whole bunch that was doing their own thing. I am the vendor coordinator at our farmers market. we have a lot of artisans and home cooked food as well as produce. I get more jewelry people asking to join than any other category. the latest one I am seen a lot of is using the ends of old silver or plate cutlery to make rings and necklaces.
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Post by pamd on Mar 16, 2012 1:46:26 GMT
Thanks, Ruth and Ann, for being so understanding. I was president of an international organization of glass beadmakers for a year, and on the board of directors for a lot of years, and so many people came to me saying "she's copying me, make her stop!". Unfortunately there was no way to do that and it really bothered me a lot that so many people seemed to have no problem at all obviously copying others, and it was very obvious.
I hope the felting world doesn't follow down that same path, but from my viewpoint now I can see how hard it is to be truly original in design when you haven't actually figured out what you are doing. It's hard, for instance, for the shape of your purse to be totally different from the shape of every other purse, especially when you have to keep it fairly simple to stay within your range of knowledge.
Ann, luckily for me I never really made jewelry and so never had to compete in that arena. I made UNwearable sculptural glass beads, sold with a display stand - (dragons, fish, birds). I made some personal jewelry just for me or at times for a particular exhibit, and often sold the pieces, but never specifically made them to sell. That's kind of how I feel about my felting. I don't want to make something to sell. I want to make what I want to make and then if at some point I want to sell it and someone wants to buy it, that's fine.
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Post by zed on Mar 16, 2012 8:38:50 GMT
I don't want to make something to sell. I want to make what I want to make and then if at some point I want to sell it and someone wants to buy it, that's fine. That's exactly how I approach my felting
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Post by pamd on Mar 16, 2012 16:53:02 GMT
Zed, many, many years ago I learned a very hard lesson about that. At that time I was doing china painting, which I loved. After years of attending weekly classes with an excellent teacher, I started taking some private orders. First was a couple of sets of dishes. Found out I didn't care for replicating a pattern again and again and again and again. Later I took a restoration job at a house that had a wall around it. The wall was faced with persian-style tiles and it looked as if someone had taken a sledge hammer to it every few steps down the wall. 300 tiles later, I found I didn't like that much either. I don't think I care for repetition.
The glass beads were easier, though still filling orders was not my favorite thing. I finally stopped taking orders and just sold my beads on ebay. That was much more what I like to do. Make something I like and I want to make and then at some point, see if anyone wants it! I think etsy seems like the place to be right now. It was just coming into its own when I quit selling on ebay. I may do that at some point in the future.
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Post by zed on Mar 17, 2012 9:38:54 GMT
I don't like repetition either, if I do repeat something, it's so I can get it right Often, I don't even have anything in mind for the piece of felt I'm making, I just want to try out a type of wool, type of fibre or see them both together. Then an idea for using them will come from that, and maybe I'll know the perfect thing to use the piece of felt for
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Post by pamd on Mar 17, 2012 13:51:17 GMT
I actually made my first piece a week or so ago that I planned what I wanted to do ahead of time, at least as far as color/pattern. Of couse when I finished it it didn't work for what I intended, but I like it a lot and am revamping my idea to incorporate it. (and I think that's the height and breadth of my planning)
It's very interesting, Zed, that we are alike in many ways, but my experimentation, to this point anyway, has to do mostly with color and pattern. The little fiber experimentation I have done have been spurred on by you. Thanks!
The embroidery, machine/hand, has become a focus right now and I am constantly playing with butterflies/moths. Some day hopefully I will put it all together! or not! I need to take some pics to share, but it's been rainy this week and I didn't have a chance. Soon, I promise.
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