Rubbing and Rolling

[lyn]

Let's start a thread about this and see what we can learn from each other.

Here's my tuppence worth:

I always gently rub wool fibres before rolling. Occasionally I only rub (not roll) wool fibres if I want a soft finish to a piece of felt.

I have never been able to achieve fine, smooth, firm felt with rubbing alone - I can only achieve that with patient rolling until my arms drop off.

[Shepherdess]

ok here's my pennies worth.

I usually do some rubbing to get everything started then move on to rolling.

I do it by hand if I only need it a little felted.

If I want it more felted I roll it up and roll it in the dryer with no heat. I roll it around a damp towel and wrap it in a damp towel. Then finish by hand rolling, throwing, shaping depending on what it is.

Some times I rub a lot. sometimes I just feel like it and it is meditative.

As a rule, I would rather roll then rub.

I don't use bubble wrap anymore. I have plastic reed mats that I use the most, but I have a rubber shelf liner and sushi mats. I have rolling tools for the final fulling too, a glass washboard different textures rubbing and roll tools too. 

I think bubble wrap is useful for beginners because they tend to be too aggressive and want to go too fast.

[lindsay]

Interesting! I’ve been mulling over this since I saw Lyn’s post.

I do different things with different pieces according to shape, wool, progress, mood....who knows? In general though, experience has taught me to do more rubbing than rolling. Recently too I’ve been rocking as well as rolling 🕺🏽 by which I mean bundling up warm, soapy felt In bubble wrap and doing small rocking movements rather than full arm rolls. It seems to be effective and is less tiring on the arms and back. I certainly do less rolling than I used to.

I agree with Lyn though that if I’m finishing a smooth, flat piece of felt, I find full arm rolling the best method.

Unlike Ann I never use the washer or dryer but I do have a small glass lingerie washboard that occasionally comes into play, especially when nuno felting with silk.

[Shepherdess]

yes, it certainly depends on what I am making. it is more complicated than always this or that. Anything with large inclusions like marbles has to be rubbed around the obstacle and it's much harder to roll them. I don't use the washer, just use the dryer to roll. what I really want is this but half the length. we are slowly aquiering all the necessary parts. I have the tube part now and a few wheels.

[MTRuth]

I used to do mainly rolling and no rubbing. I have now changed that completely around and do mostly rubbing. I have a black ribbed mat, like stair tread, that I have under my felt at all times. Many times it is just putting pressure down on to the felt against the ribs of the mat. I may change the fulling technique, depending on the piece. Many times it is rolling the piece on to itself. I may use plastic on my hands to give a smoother surface when rubbing. I used a sander at one time but never use that now. I haven't tried using the washer or dryer.

[Pandagirl]

My method is similar to Ruth’s. Rubbing then rolling on itself.

[lyn]

Even though I know what it is Ann, it looks as if you are making a cannon to defend your homestead from invaders.

Thank you to all for posting on this thread - listening to others is a great way to learn and experiment.

[Antje]

I think you may have seen my recent post 'A yarn & prep experiments', in that I said I’ve changed my technique.

I've been fascinated by the Russian felters for quite some time. They are a great felted wool garment Nation. The more I research the more felters I find and strangely the work that appeals to me, for the most part, is felted as follows:

Gentle rubbing, just to 'stick' the fibres, sanding to 'engage' the fibres, more gentle rubbing particularly around 'inclusions', then scrunching gently from the sides in/then out again on a textured surface (I’ve been thinking about how the fibres must bend in this manoeuvre allow them to 'poke' through each other and so engage more perhaps), then scrunched up bundle rolling/flopping (still quite wet), more gentle rubbing in areas to adjust the shape this is Done either flat or scrunched up, sometimes flapping by holding one end & trying to create waves in the piece - all before Final checking/adjusting the shape.
The rolling seems only to be done for the fulling, and even that is gentle.

The 'fabric' produced for gorgeous soft draping dresses or more robust coats is amazing. Here again I’m learning as the fibre layouts are very different depending on your final piece.

I am definitely changing my techniques to be more gentle on me....and I’m not producing huge pieces (Dresses/coats) in one go!

[lyn]

May 15, 2020 6:56:35 GMT Antje said:

I think you may have seen my recent post 'A yarn & prep experiments', in that I said I’ve changed my technique.

I've been fascinated by the Russian felters for quite some time. They are a great felted wool garment Nation. The more I research the more felters I find and strangely the work that appeals to me, for the most part, is felted as follows:

Gentle rubbing, just to 'stick' the fibres, sanding to 'engage' the fibres, more gentle rubbing particularly around 'inclusions', then scrunching gently from the sides in/then out again on a textured surface (I’ve been thinking about how the fibres must bend in this manoeuvre allow them to 'poke' through each other and so engage more perhaps), then scrunched up bundle rolling/flopping (still quite wet), more gentle rubbing in areas to adjust the shape this is Done either flat or scrunched up, sometimes flapping by holding one end & trying to create waves in the piece - all before Final checking/adjusting the shape.
The rolling seems only to be done for the fulling, and even that is gentle.

The 'fabric' produced for gorgeous soft draping dresses or more robust coats is amazing. Here again I’m learning as the fibre layouts are very different depending on your final piece.

I am definitely changing my techniques to be more gentle on me....and I’m not producing huge pieces (Dresses/coats) in one go!

Yes Antje - this thread was inspired by your blog post!

I tried sanding once and didn't get on with it. However I was using an antique sander from my husband's garage - it nearly deafened me and the vibration was very unpleasant on my hand.
What kind of sander do you use?

Maybe I will be brave enough to try the scrunching method but not yet - my current project needs to be a certain shape and I'm carefully rolling it an even number of times each way on each side!

I like hearing about other methods and I like to try them because I'm always keen to improve on what I do and perhaps make felting easier as I'm in my autumn years.

[Antje]

In answer to your question - a flat bed orbital sander. I move the sand in sections left to right then top to bottom & count to 5 each time (5 seconds). I also have a small ‘triangular' mouse/sander that has a point....ideal for tricky areas. In reality they don't get used that much on each felt piece.

I have in the past put pieces in the washing machine - stuffed & in a washing net. I wouldn't rule it out for items that need to be hard felted such as a vessel Or something like a cat cave (I don't have a cat!). The problem on emerging from the washing Machine is that you need to be quite tough to get it to submit to the desired shape....long fingerNails will not survive!

Autumn years....I definitely fall into that category.

Do you check in on the Russian felters? They are streets ahead of us. I just wish I spoke Russian.

[lyn]

Thank you Antje - I will have to check out the Russian felters.

[Shepherdess]

Antje you must be seeing different Russians than I do. the ones I see use big flat deeply ridged wooded rollers and really put their back into it and then use textured rolling pins to really go after things. None of them were making delicate items mind you.

[felicity]

Being Russian and have known many Russian felters personally I just can't miss this discussion

[lyn]

May 17, 2020 13:27:22 GMT felicity said:

Being Russian and have known many Russian felters personally I just can't miss this discussion

Hello Galina - what are your thoughts on the rubbing/rolling debate? And do Russian felters have better/easier methods?

[felicity]

I am a "rolling" person but it's very much depends on what you wish to achieve! If I want to make a delicate scarf or something sturdier but with fine surface (like my "watercolours") I hardly ever rub and mainly on a back side. I believe that the problem with rubbing is that it agitates fibres which is what it is for at the beginning of a process. If the rubbing is to continue it will cause too much wool going through to the surface and it will blur all the colours or create unsightly layer of wool on the top of fabric if it's a nuno piece. Obviously it's fine if the colours are not a problem or if you make a sturdy piece like boots or slippers or heavy garment. I never make them so I mainly roll but rub sometimes when I need to make some detail very firm.
As for Russian felters I agree with Antje that they are very advanced generally speaking. One of the reasons is that this craft is on the top of the fashion a few last years and another is that many felters there consider it as a job (part-time or even more) and not as occasional hobby. They are making mainly wearable things and a competition is fierce so they are very good technically. And "Russian" usually means from a former Soviet union, they may be Ukrainians (there are very talented Ukrainian felters) of from Baltic countries where they have a long time traditions of working with wool.
Yes, the most of them use sanders at the first stage of felting just to help wool to catch especially if it's nuno. And then the process is how Antje described. One lady (who doesn't use sander) seals the piece between two layers of plastic and then shake it in different fashions, it works nicely for delicate scarves or light garments. They hardly ever make interior pieces.
Sorry for a long post