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Post by jwugg on Apr 8, 2015 8:46:02 GMT
Apologies, ranting a bit, but would be grateful for anyone's views on how to deal with this situation....
So, I have a friend who I went to some silk painting classes with & we took a first felting demo together. She lives nearby & has continued to make silk & felt items, we have often shared a table at craft markets etc. All very nice. However, a year ago she asked for my help to set up her Etsy shop, which I was happy to do. Then a mutual friend asked me "how come X's Etsy shop looks exactly the same as yours? - even the same wording on descriptions". I had previously seen she had made 'look-alike' scarves to mine on several occasions, but tried to take it as a compliment.
I looked yesterday at her Etsy shop, & she is using a couple of cute little sayings I have included in some of my descriptions, about using local produce, no way is it a coincidence. & several items look almost the same.
Now, I know Etsy is mega-huge so it probably won't matter from a sales point of view, but personally, it is starting to annoy me a little. What should I do? At the last craft fair I did mention, in a gentle way: "oh, I sold one just like that last month" & "My xyz scarf like that sold quickly", but I suppose that's a cop-out & maybe passive aggressive! I'd prefer not to fall out with her, but I'd also prefer she stopped copying me!
Ideas? Similar experiences??
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Post by zed on Apr 8, 2015 9:24:16 GMT
I'm afraid I'd be typically British and be all smiles and them fume and rant at home Maybe since you both learned at the same time, she just feels safer following your lead? I'm no good at being confrontational so maybe you could look for an opportunity, if she mentions something hasn't sold, encourage her to find her own style and experiment, maybe even suggest you'd both sell more if your items weren't so similar? I had a similar experience years ago when I posted a photo on flickr of a sculptural vessel, someone asked how it was made, so I told her. Before long she was charging people £50 EACH for vessel making workshops using the same technique, and around the same time I'd posted some other surface design pics and the next thing someone I followed posted similar pics, the comments full of praise, and not one nod to where she'd got the idea.
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Post by felicity on Apr 8, 2015 9:31:37 GMT
Oh it's so tricky situation Jill! Especially if you do not want to fall out with your friend. Is she native English-speaking person? If not may be this is the reason why she try to copy your descriptions... Apparently you are an inspiration to her and so close at hand!
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Post by koffipot on Apr 8, 2015 10:21:18 GMT
They do say that imitation is the greatest compliment! However, plagiarism is a very different animal! I'm afraid I find confrontation very difficult too, so can't advise, though I do sympathise. I seem to remember Jackie Cardy having a similar problem a while back, though apart from posting publicly on the internet, I don't know how she dealt with it, nor the outcome. Perhaps it would be worth contacting her. This is her Etsy shop: - www.etsy.com/uk/shop/JackieCardytextiles
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Post by Shepherdess on Apr 8, 2015 13:38:41 GMT
Confrontation is not something I am good at either. Perhaps ask her to change her wording because it confusing for people. They think that you are selling under 2 names because the descriptions are the same and her products are so similar to yours.
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Post by luvswool and dyestuff on Apr 8, 2015 13:57:30 GMT
Jill, this is a tough one! I’ve had an Etsy shop for 4 or 5 years offering mostly vintage items, but I do remember this issue coming up repeatedly on the Etsy community forums, when I followed them. It’s a lot easier to handle if you are not “friends” with the person, but knowing her makes it a bit of a “sticky wicket.”
I would encourage you to search on the forums for this issue and discover how other folks have handled it. As an aside, when I taught classes in early childhood, I several times caught students who plagiarized, and my experience was that they would not admit it until I showed them the reference and downloaded the exact quotes. So if you do decide to mention it to your friend, be prepared for denial.
Having said all that, I do encourage you to pursue it, because this kind of thing just eats away at you!
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Post by Pandagirl on Apr 8, 2015 14:02:23 GMT
Confrontation is not my style either, but sometimes it's necessary to clear the air. It's a tough situation. Would you be comfortable meeting her for coffee or lunch and tell her you were happy to help her set up her shop, but as Zed and Ann mentioned it would be better for both of you if she found her own style in her descriptions. That you are uncomfortable that she's using your prose. It wouldn't have to be confrontational, just a discussion. I know easier said than done.
I would be very frustrated in your situation, too. Actually, she doesn't sound like a good friend if she's using your projects and ideas as her own and has ignored your subtle hints.
Have you tried changing your descriptions? Does she then copy the changes also? It's unfortunate you can't copyright descriptions!
Cathy makes a good point. It will eat away at you. Perhaps there's an answer on Etsy itself. Good luck!
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Post by jwugg on Apr 8, 2015 14:48:38 GMT
Thank you all so much for listening! Oh Marilyn, so are so right & so grown up, but I don't know whether I can - I may just do what the other ladies were saying, being British!
I'm not doing anything unique or new or particularly creative for Etsy & these local sales, it's just scarves mostly, but I suppose she doesn't trust her own creativity maybe to think of her own designs? Maybe I'll tell her about Pinterest!! Although actually I don't think I'll tell her anything new now. I just find the Etsy descriptions mildly silly as it's not difficult to write your own descriptions, although it is time-consuming, I like your idea Ann. & Felicity, yes she is also British, so she doesn't have that excuse! I think I'll ignore it for longer & see if I can forget about it. Not a big deal if I don't let it be one.
That's terrible, Zed, to steal your idea & make a workshop, grrrrr. Of course, we can't prove ownership of any idea etc when it's creative, always a problem I know.
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Post by MTRuth on Apr 8, 2015 18:54:15 GMT
Jill, I know it is hard but not dealing with an issue just causes you problems not her. If nothing else, you could send her an e-mail or letter to let her know that you are upset about the issues. If you write it all out into a letter format, then you can make it as confrontational or not as you would like. Sometimes, face to face can get a bit difficult but putting it down on paper can straighten out some of the issues in your mind. And once you've written it out then if you choose not to send it, at least you get it out of your head on to paper. Sometimes that helps for you to let it go entirely.
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Post by elizabeth on Apr 8, 2015 20:01:31 GMT
Someone like that has no morals and you should definitely NOT call her 'friend'!! She definitely needs a huge cold shoulder. Or, you can take the southern passive aggressive route and admire the designs that are like yours and reject the ones that aren't. Then you look at her with a BIG smile and wide open eyes and say 'Bless your heart dear, where DO you come up with your designs?!' For those of you not ingrained in Southern US culture, 'Bless your heart' is one of the worst insults women can give each other. Such as 'She really fills out those pants, bless her heart'.
When you next have table at a fair, you should post a picture of your Etsy shop and say 'these original designs are from THIS shop'
Having said all that fun stuff, try Ruth's suggestion. I've short-circuited a few cat fights by writing it all down and getting it out of my system.
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Post by Teri Berry on Apr 8, 2015 20:44:28 GMT
Jill you have my sympathies, what an awful situation. I too hate confrontation, I tend to let it fester and then end up losing my temper. Have you considered saying that you are flattered and asking her why she felt the need to copy? I suspect she feels insecure in her own ability to market her work, and looks to you as someone who is successful? perhaps suggest that she looks at a wide selection of other easy makers, jotting down the elements that she likes from each an then incorporating them into her own listings. That way she can find her own style while keeping the safety net she feels she needs...
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Post by Frances on Apr 9, 2015 3:36:34 GMT
I also think writing it out would be good so you have a clear head if you do decide to discuss it with her. It is wrong for someone else to use your descriptions and copy your work. (I don't think I could ever make the same scarf twice or copy someones even though I might use the colors or design for inspiration. I would not want something I made to be an exact copy of someone else's.)
This discussion made me think about my own work - I always try to give credit but many times I have watched several u-tube videos or read several blogs and they are similiar so there is really no way to say exactly who I learned to technique from. An example is using marbles or beads to make bubbles - I think one of the moderators here wrote a post on in, it is in one of the books I have and I have seen it used on U-tube - so who gets the credit? The same with cob web felting.
If I decided to have a go at making felting a business and selling things I make I would consider adding a painted or embroidered signature or icon to each piece to identify it as mine. That should stop anyone for trying to imply that their work was my work. I put my initials on my crosstitch and embroidery work and used a sharpie to sign tole painted or stenciled items. Most all potters sign their work.
Maybe someone could do a post on the forum on how fiber artists "sign" their work.
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Post by zed on Apr 9, 2015 11:07:20 GMT
I like Ann's and Ruth's suggestions.
I know we can't always 'prove ownership' of ideas and mostly we don't want to or don't want to keep exclusive rights or anything or this community wouldn't exist because we wouldn't have anything to share, but at the same time, credit where it is due would be nice. I think what you said Frances is fine, sometimes ideas form from a combination of things anyway.
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Post by jwugg on Apr 9, 2015 14:41:10 GMT
Thanks again, everyone, plenty for me to mull over. Elizabeth you are naughty!
Whenever we share a table at a local market, she always arrives earlier than we agree & sets up on the best side of the stall & pushes her stuff further than 1/2 way across the table. It's so petty. But I admit I have slowly slid things across a millimetre at a time on occasion. & at Christmas I arrived even earlier - ha! & the table looks a mess, with too much stuff on. I have vowed that I will not share a table again, at least. Life's too short & too difficult to get too upset about these things.
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Post by elizabeth on Apr 9, 2015 16:38:32 GMT
Double-thumbs up on the not sharing, Jill. And yes, I'm very naughty!!
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